splice
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Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/29 16:50
<..>
Cigarette Smoking-Related Mortality ..
Cardiovascular Diseases 179,820 ..
All Causes 418,690
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.htm
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splice
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/29 20:07
The following study abstract shows that eating fish, or meat sparingly increases mortality from ischaemic heart disease .
Reference: Am J Clin Nutr 1998; 67:412-420.
MORTALITY AMONG VEGETARIANS AND NON-VEGETARIANS
Objective: To compare the mortality rates of vegetarians and non-vegetarians.
Design: Collaborative analysis using original data from five prospective studies.
Death rate ratios for vegetarians compared to non-vegetarians were calculated for ischaemic heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, cancers of the stomach, large bowel, lung, breast and prostate, and for all causes of death. All results were adjusted for age, sex and smoking. A random effects model was used to calculate pooled estimates of effect for all studies combined. Setting: USA,
UK and Germany.
Subjects: 76,172 men and women aged 16-89 years at recruitment.
Vegetarians were those who did not eat any meat or fish (n = 27,808).
Non-vegetarians were from a similar background to the vegetarians within each study. Results: After a mean of 10.6 years of follow-up there were 8330 deaths before the age of 90 years, including 2264 deaths from ischaemic heart disease. In comparison with non-vegetarians, vegetarians had a 24% reduction in mortality from ischaemic heart disease (death rate ratio 0.76, 95% CI 0.62-0.94). The reduction in mortality among vegetarians varied significantly with age at death: rate ratios for vegetarians compared to non-vegetarians were 0.55 (95% CI 0.35-0.85),
0.69 (95% CI 0.53-0.90) and 0.92 (95% CI 0.73-1.16) for deaths from ischaemic heart disease at ages <65, 65-79 and 80-89 years, respectively.
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curmudgn
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 00:12
Although I don't consider myself a perfect example, mind.
[..
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splice
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 01:16
An enlightened and aware public should.
Distinctive Chemical Imbalances Observed in Criminals ..
. . . subjects have been placed on individualized treatment programs to correct the specific chemical imbalances observed. These treatments . . . consist of vitamin, mineral, and amino acid supplements, together with dietary recommendations. The treatments are quite different for each body chemistry type, and great care must be taken in characterizing each subject. . . . surveys of parents, teachers, and counselors show that more than 75 percent of the treated subjects report a "significant improvement," with best results obtained with children.
<..>
Social problems such as criminality are symptoms. Address the causes.
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 01:40
<...>
Bread and water. *White* bread and water. I don't care. This guy is on the right path as far as I'm concerned:
"I got meal costs down to 40 cents a day per inmate. It costs $1.15 a day to feed the department's dogs. Now, I'm cutting prisoners' calories from 3,000 to 2,500 a day," the sheriff said during a recent tour of his tent city.
"Do you hear me?" he asked the inmates who surrounded him.
"You're too fat. I'm taking away your food because I'm trying to help you. I'm on a diet myself. You eat too much fat."
Several prisoners told Arpaio they often received rotten food.
"The cheese is old. The meat has green spots. And the heat kills you," said Tom Silha, 42, serving nine months for fraud.
Arpaio told him he didn't care. "If you don't like it, don't come back," he said...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Southwest/10/29/chain.gang.reut/
See also:
Society has absolutely no obligation to maintain religious sensitivities of those who break society's laws. The food fed to prisoners should only be marginally fit for human consumption.
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Another of Karen's inconsistencies....
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ViroBoi06
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 05:52
Is it meat eating in general, or *excessive* meat eating? Are there statistics or studies that reference the life spans of people who eat moderate amounts of eat, as opposed to those that eat at McDs 5 times a week? I would imagine the key factor in determining longevity and health would be the amount of meat one consumes. For example, if I ate one lean steak and 2 chicken breasts, 3 broiled fish, and a handful of eggs and glasses of milk per week (and the rest a healthy veggie diet), I would imagine the negative health consequences to be minimal (although tbh I don't know for certain).
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splice
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 09:20
Denial is the hallmark of addiction, jim. Thanks.
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mikethequick
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 09:48
..
Indeed you do, you dream, and dream, and dream. You claim you know for a fact that eating meat will be the cause of death for those who eat meat, but are happy yourself just to go blind, senile, and rot to death from a variety of causes, simply because you are sure that not eating meat is the right thing not only for yourself, but everyone else. All this with no evidence at all that not eating meat will present you with a better quality of life. What an idiot you are.
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splice
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 14:19
I didn't mean that in a mean way, ta. But I've posted it so many times to aaev. Thought you were reading aaev. .. Maybe not, or maybe you must have missed it. Just as well I repost and repost I guess.
Why do you think it is recommended that animal-based foods be eaten no more than sparingly? Obviously not because such foods are healthful!
Meat is deadly to the animal you're eating.
Flesh is putrefactive. Toxic by-products are produced which are a burden to our system, even when consumed sparingly.
"However, the Asian diet, which is significantly lower in total fat, may prove to be an even more healthful diet," he added. '
Willett also said; "If you step back and look at the data, the optimum amount of red meat you eat should be zero."
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splice
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 14:54
Most of the other 80% is overweight.
'Most adults in England are overweight, and one in five - around 8 million in total - is obese, says a government report. If the current trend continues, by 2005 a quarter of women and a fifth of men could be obese.'
http://www.disabilityuk.com/health/obesity/health3.htm
Vegetarians can eat more, while weighing less.
J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
Levin N, Rattan J, Gilat T.
Vegetarians have a lower body weight than omnivores. In this study the relationship between the weight/height ratio and food consumption was evaluated in 92 ovo-lacto vegetarians and 113 omnivores in Israel. The average weight of the vegetarians was significantly lower than that of the omnivores (60.8 kg vs. 69.1 kg), even though the vegetarian diet supplied a significantly higher amount of calories than the nonvegetarian diet (3,030.5 cal/day vs. 2,626.8 cal/day). Consumption of fat was similar in both groups. Carbohydrate consumption was higher in the vegetarians while protein consumption was lower.
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524
I can only assume you've not been reading the groups these past few days.
No comment from Saunby, just a non-sequitur rant.
<snip rant>
People that are healthy do die at a significantly greater age than people with compromised health, and they are more intelligent, as their brain is also healthier and thus functions better, and they are more virile, as their endocrine system and organs are also healthier, and they are better looking, because they have good skin tone, colour and complexion, bright eyes, and they are fit, and they are more likely to succeed in life because of the above.
Ipse dixit, and false.
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/30 17:36
'Last July the jail cut back on food costs by serving cold cuts for lunches and on Saturday nights instead of hot meals, which Anderson said made her situation more difficult because the jail used to serve a vegetable with lunch. The move sparked a "mini-riot" by unhappy inmates at two housing units. '
'For her part, Anderson gives the "good stuff" to other inmates, sometimes receiving extra vegetables or cereal in return. She's hesitant to characterize it as a trade, which is also against jail policy. '
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/31 02:28
*
"Evidence suggests that eating even small amounts of animal-based foods is linked at least for many individuals to significantly higher rates of cancers and cardiovascular diseases typically found in the United States."
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mikethequick
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/31 06:17
...
...
Unfortunately you are extrapolating from data on causes of death, e.g.
heart failure, to common causes of those diseases, e.g. poor diet and then concluding that you and others like you will on average live longer and healthier lives. To some extent this is true, e.g. motorcyclists don't live as long as others so not riding a motorcycle will, on average, result in a longer life.
What you are failing to recognise is that you will die, your death may actually be quite extended with a long and painful end, so your claims of better quality of life for veg*ns is unproved.
You might wish to consider the reality of differences in life expectancy between different groups -http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article375.html
" UCLA researchers for the first time have identified and ranked which diseases contribute most to the life-expectancy gap between races and between education levels. The top four contributors to the life-expectancy disparity between blacks and whites are hypertension, HIV, homicide and diabetes. The top six contributors of mortality differences between education levels are all smoking-related diseases."
So what is it that drives veg*ns to argue for changes to a meat free diet when there are bigger issues to worry about, if global life expectancy is what you are seeking to improve?
Oh, perhaps this should be more of a concern for some here -
Michael Saunby
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splice
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/31 10:48
November 2, 2000
Being Veg in the Pokey Just Got Easier
The U.S. Bureau of Prisons has announced that it will begin serving meatless meals for 145,000 federal prisoners who have chosen not to eat animal flesh. A spokesperson attributed the move to "the changing dietary habits of the inmate population."
"We have, for instance, roast beef. For those who don't eat flesh, they might have peanut butter," said Danny M. Williams, food service administrator at the federal prison in Yazoo City, Miss.
Ninety prisoners there already receive special meals there.
Dave Globun, food service administrator at the Marion, IL, federal prison, said, "I have some samples right here of some soy-like beef substitute. It's a dehydrated product,'' Globun said.
"There's so many of them out there, I'm trying them to see which ones are good. I have 88 inmates who work in the kitchen. When we cook something, we all sample it and we share our opinions."
About 10 percent of the 650 inmates ay Marion are eating vegetarian diets, often for religious reasons.
'The prison meals cost, on average, 80 to 90 cents. Vegetarian diets are accommodated. Last October, the U.S. Bureau of
Prisons declared that prisoners have a right to vegetarian and vegan meals, resulting in huge financial savings as some prison departments cut meat consumption by nearly 50 percent by substituting the healthier textured soy protein alternative for meat.
"We are happy to meet individuals' religious or medical needs in terms of food," says captain Jeffery Newton.
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mikethequick
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/31 14:30
At what age do these deaths occur? To be honest I really don't care what
I die of once I get past 105.
What do vegetarians generally die of? Since they must surely die eventually even if they do average rather more than others.What is it 40 years more than others, or 50, or what? Surely it makes no sense to never eat meat if it extends lifespan by only a matter of months?
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adrenalin
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/31 18:30
the really fatous bit about that comment is that it is made to an audience of meat eaters who look at each other wondering what is all this feeling miserable and pain she is on about.
I can assure you that I eat meat at least twice a day and feel absolutely no misery or pain
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20% of calories from meat
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splice
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/03/31 20:00
'The Cornell-China-Oxford Project is a massive survey of more than 10,000 families in mainland China and Taiwan designed to study diet, lifestyle and disease across the far reaches of China.
By investigating simultaneously more diseases and more dietary characteristics than any other study to date, the project has generated the most comprehensive database in the world on the multiple causes of disease. Much of the research behind the pyramid is based on the China project's research findings.
..
"This pyramid reflects the growing body of research that suggests that Americans will not reduce their rate of cancers, cardiovascular disease and other chronic, degenerative diseases until they shift their diets away from animal-based foods to plant-based foods,"
Campbell said. "Evidence suggests that eating even small amounts of animal- based foods is linked at least for many individuals to significantly higher rates of cancers and cardiovascular diseases typically found in the United States." Further, he reported last year, merely eating some low-fat foods or complying with current U.S.
dietary recommendations is unlikely to prevent much disease.
The dietary recommendations, Campbell said, do not go far enough in reducing the total fat content of the diet, or, more to the point, in advocating the exchange of foods of animal origin for foods of plant origin.
..
"The nutrient composition of the traditional rural Asian diet is very similar to the Mediterranean diet in that both are largely plant-based and both pyramids recommend that meat be consumed no more than once a month or more often in very small amounts," said
T. Colin Campbell, Cornell professor of nutritional biochemistry, co-chair of the conference and director of the Cornell-China-Oxford
Project. "However, the Asian diet, which is significantly lower in total fat, may prove to be an even more healthful diet," he added. '
Animal product consumption and mortality because of all causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists.
Snowdon DA.
Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.
This report reviews, contrasts, and illustrates previously published findings from a cohort of 27,529 California Seventh-day Adventist adults who completed questionnaires in 1960 and were followed for mortality between 1960 and 1980. Within this population, meat consumption was positively associated with mortality because of all causes of death combined (in males), coronary heart disease (in males and females), and diabetes (in males). Egg consumption was positively associated with mortality because of all causes combined (in females), coronary heart disease (in females), and cancers of the colon (in males and females combined) and ovary. Milk consumption was positively associated with only prostate cancer mortality, and cheese consumption did not have a clear relationship with any cause of death. The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not have negative associations with any of the causes of death investigated.
PMID: 3046303 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
"If you step back and look at the data, the optimum amount of red meat you eat should be zero."
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adrenalin
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/04/01 02:36
why, what are you addicted to, other than pontificating and posting irrelevent gump?
Don't worry, we have, I'm off to get my tea, cold roast beef sandwiches with just a hint of horseradish
Jim Webster
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curmudgn
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/04/01 05:04
Oh come off it; I've called you worse, skinny 
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ViroBoi06
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re:Smoking related deaths - 2006/04/01 06:52
I didn't believe that you did. I was just inquiring as to why you said
"Again", as I did not understand what you were referring to.
Well, I have to say, I do not read every single thread in aaev . . . far from it. I know some people do, which is fine, but I'm more of a "scanner".
Because eating animal-based foods more than sparingly has negative health consequences, but eating them sparingly necessarily does not.
Personally, I don't eat animal products at all, as you know, but by the same token, I think we should be brutally honest about the true nature of meat eating. The bottom line to me, regardless of my personal choices and philosophical views, is that meat eating per se is not inherently unhealthy.
The "western diet" most certainly is, but I'm quite convinced that there are other factors far more relevant to overall health than the occasional consumption of animal products. Even primitive foraging cultures gobbled up the occasional lizard or egg or animal carcass to survive, despite their overwhelmingly plant-based diet.
True, but the effects are not entirely negative (to only point out the negative is not fair). In my *opinion*, the negatives far outweigh the positive, and there is absolutely no reason to eat meat in modern western society, but to argue that even minimal amounts of animal products are deadly sounds too much like dogma to me, without solid scientific evidence that that is indeed the case.
I think we can effectively argue that a strictly non-animal based diet is the *ideal* diet, but eating moderate amounts of meat is not deadly. Why would anyone not eat the ideal diet? Because our eating habits are dictated primarily by our culture, and our culture says its OK to use animals as food, and just as importantly, meat tastes good, and that's a hard thing for people to change.
I agree with his interpretation of the data, but it is an interpretation nonetheless. My point is that we should acknowledge that meat-centric diets are terribly unhealthy, and also acknowledge that small amounts of meat are not terribly unhealthy. At this point, then we have to move to other arguments (ethical, environmental etc.). Advocating a vegan diet and acknowledging the (few) benefits of meat eating are not contradictory imo.
You and I might have different values than meat eaters, but that does not alter the fact that eating meat, as a matter of rule, is not inherently deadly.
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