cdcollectr
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Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/18 16:05
Three years ago, Karen, you used Ash Wednesday as the occasion to post what looked, at the time, like the beginning of an honest acceptance of moral responsibility for the consequences of your behavior.
Today, I'd like to suggest you use it as an occasion to mark the beginning of a new, more honest, more responsible and, potentially, more fulfilling relationship with your son. I write this in all seriousness, candor and good faith.
I think you ought to write to him, and without necessarily making any blunt admission of having abandoned him or abdicated your responsibility to him, apologize for any adverse effect your absence from his life may have caused. It needn't be any long, weepy confession, and in fact probably should not be. I think you could have the maximum salutary effect on your relationship with him today by saying something as simple as "I'm sorry I wasn't there for you, and I apologize for any unhappiness that might have caused you."
I also think today would be a good day to renounce your hope that your grandson turn out to be homosexual.
First of all, that's simply none of your business.
Second, it's pretty obvious that the hope is based solely on a wish to cause pain to your son, and since you're trying to do what you can to have as good a relationship with him as possible, there's no room for that kind of wish.
If you want to go beyond what I've suggested, I think you can come up with several useful, non-self-justifying additions. I think what I've written above ought to be a minimum, and that it might change the whole course of your relationship with your son...and with your grandson.
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punkerbruhaha
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/18 18:38
To try to make peace with his family, and die -- he knew he was dying.
Then a marriage between man and woman is not love either.
Many radicals through the centuries have criticized het marriage as a form of prostitution -- the man gets sex, the woman gets room and board. How was this relationship any different? It's easy to dismiss emotions and love when you don't understand them, and, ignoring the emotional aspect, straight marriage or love relationships look no different from what "Len" and Darryl had ( except "Len" wasn't as jealous as most straight men.)
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cdcollectr
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/18 21:01
That might be true in most regards, but not in one: you CLEARLY are afraid to tell your son that you hope your grandson grows up to be homosexual. You would not tell him that, and you would not post your correspondence that revealed you *didn't* tell him that. In that sense, if in no other, you are terribly afraid.
You're paranoid. In addition to having a terrible character defect, you're becoming paranoid.
In fact, while I undoubtedly wouldn't be willing to change my overall opinion of you - one positive step forward doesn't a new person make - I would indeed congratulate you for at least that one step. I think a lot would depend on how sincere I felt you were being in what you might write along those lines to your son. Obviously, in a written context, and seeing it third hand, there would be no way to evaluate your sincerity. It would all be highly contingent on accepting on faith that you did in fact write to him, did say the things you might claim here you said, and so on. IF you actually did it, then of course you would be due some genuine congratulations. I really would be curious, and not from some lurid prurient perspective, to see what he might reply to an opening like that from you, because if he does harbor some (possibly unconscious, unexplored) feelings of having been abandoned, an opening from you along those lines could be very disarming; he almost assuredly would not be expecting it, and he would probably be floored for a while.
You can't "see through" me, Karen, because I'm being completely honest with you. It's true I don't care for what I know of you, based on what you reveal here, but that doesn't mean I'm not being honest; I am being honest. There's no gamesmanship going on - I honestly do feel, based on the totality of my exposure to you through usenet, that you have had a lifelong problem with accepting responsibility. It shows up in everything you right. I could be wrong, but I don't believe I am.
I'd be very curious to see you address what M. Scott
Peck had to say about inability to accept responsibility, and how that applies to you, instead of just ignoring it. Too painful?
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newtrier
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/18 21:14
This "independence" was based on what? Let's see, Darryl and JR had been prostitutes. Len kept Darryl -- a child. JR put up with sharing his cohort with
Len since it fulfilled his material needs. JR then was in and out of your home.
The guy never was independent.
No, that wasn't love. Love has no quid pro quo, and that's what their relationship was.
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cdcollectr
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 00:42
No, you haven't. You shuffled him off to someone else to raise, because you didn't WANT to raise him.
You saw what you wanted to see. What I see, based on what you've written, is someone who was tickled pink to have his already-established self-indulgence enabled by a couple of FELLOW MARGINALS who were doing their enabling precisely BECAUSE he was a marginal.
Don't you supppose your son might have been sweet and loving, too, if you had tried to raise him? If he really is the type of character you describe, the best explanation for it is that he grew up in a moral vacuum, created mostly by your abandonment of him. In any case, YOU HAD THE BOY during the early formative years where those traits are developed. What the FUCK were you doing?
Your son grew up in a moral vacuum, and with horrible instability, thanks to you. He was shunted back and forth in at least four different households, in at least two different states. He was made to feel unwanted. No surprise - he WAS unwanted, by both of his biological parents.
You didn't want your son; your ex-husband didn't want his son; your son was shuffled back and forth among various households; your son internalized that he wasn't wanted. It is no mystery why your son grew up with bad character. Character is BUILT by good parenting. Your son didn't receive it. No mystery.
You abandoned your son, Karen.
What a joke! You didn't love the wreckage, then provide the goodies to him based on that love; you provided the goodies, he reacted like a servile dog, and you concluded from that that you "loved" him. That isn't what love is.
I do understand loving and helping. I also understand that enabling self destruction is ANYTHING BUT love.
You didn't owe the dung anything. You CHOSE to shower your misplaced compassion on him precisely because he was a thorough-going deviant. His deviancy is what made him appealing to you.
That's an enabling organization. In a perverted, politically-correct wish not to appear "judgmental", they enable deviancy. You enabled deviancy.
Of course they did! Fellow deviancy enablers in a big putrid orgy of perverted self congratulation.
You enabled a punk's self destruction out of pity, which you wrongly consider to have been compassion.
You're making no headway. You are not accepting responsibility. You're still trying to justify your abandonment of your son, and pretend it was something else.
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cdcollectr
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 03:15
Typical feminazi clap-trap; not worth a bucket of lukewarm piss.
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cdcollectr
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 07:57
Right, because you are too cowardly to tell him that you fervently hope his son turns out to be queer, and you wouldn't post your side of the correspondence and allow us to see what's missing.
You admitted that you preferred "jr" because he was queer; you never got around to acknowledging that it didn't take any "mind-reading" on my part to ascertain that. It also didn't take any mind-reading on my part to figure out that your wish for your grandson to be queer is largely based on a vindictive wish to inflict pain on your son.
Why do you not accept responsibility for the fact that your shit relationship with your son is almost entirely your fault? Why do you not accept responsibility for the effect your abandonment of your son produced in him?
Why do you fail to acknowledge that you suffer the kind of character defect Dr. Peck discusses, in which you are *utterly* incapable of accepting responsibility for the quality of your life?
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punkerbruhaha
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 08:26
Nothing, but it's private. I wouldn't mind E-mailing you, if you were friendly, or at least neutral. But I know you are an enemy, and your only motive is to find something to use as a weapon. I might have indeed written what you claim I should, but if so, you would not congratulate me for "accepting responsibility," you would only see it as a weakness to exploit. You're trying to play "good cop/bad cop" with me here, but I see through you, jonnie. I always do, now.
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 12:02
<snip>
I have. You know nothing of our correspondence and, for damn sure,
I don't intend posting any of it here.
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newtrier
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 13:54
Just like the lawyer, "Len," who plied both of those teen prostitutes with goodies until they decided to go back to Florida. Karen called that "love," even though it was quickly withdrawn when they stopped providing sex at his whim.
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punkerbruhaha
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 18:35
<snip>
I've stood by my son.
<snip>
No, mainly on his sweet and loving character; partly on his kinship with us as gay. If you had one child who was a flaming faggot and one who was a tight-ass little fascist like you, I doubt you would feel equal affection for both.
So, I'm sure you will set your kid out on the sidewalk and let him fend for himself, not providing anything. One helps people one loves, but then, you probably can't understand loving and helping.
<snip>
Children of the Night would disagree with you there. They told us we were doing exactly the right thing for J.R. Drugs aren't easy to deal with, or easy to quit. But people don't stop being human because they have a drug problem.
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/19 21:49
That was clear from *everything* she wrote. Most mothers wouldn't make such horrible comparisons and paint their biological children in such bad light ("weird fascist," etc.). Even Jeff Dahmer's parents stood by him when his crimes were exposed and even though they couldn't handle the ghastly nature of what he'd done. Karen seems to have adopted a parallel corollary to veganism ("animals good, people bad") in which normal is bad and queer is good. That's clear from her comparison between the son she abandoned (who became a military officer) and the drug-abusing prostitute adult "foster son" (who killed himself).
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cdcollectr
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/20 00:10
You'll recall that she admitted her preference for that wreck was based on his being homosexual. You'll also recall, although she didn't phrase it this way, that the "love" the wreckage expressed for her was based solely on her having doled out some goodies: food, shelter, and so on. She didn't really play a parenting role; she played an enabling role to a self destructive junkie. They made much of the fact they would allow him to come home high, but not bring any drugs into the house. That was only because they didn't want to get mixed up with the law themselves, in the event the cops followed him in. They didn't do *anything* to try to get him to behave responsibly; why would they have, when their whole infatuation with him was because he was yet another lifelong responsibility shirking marginal?
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punkerbruhaha
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re:Ash Wednesday - 2007/01/20 07:29
<snip>
No, it was withdrawn when Darryl _died_. "Len" had no relationship with JR, who was in his twenties, and (as I'm sure all you good enthusiasts of "responsibility" would agree) was ready to go off on his own. "Len" had given JR room and board in his house for Darryl's sake. Darryl had stopped having sex with "Len" many months before, _because_ he found out he had AIDS. "Len" acted in a loving role, continuing to provide for Darryl, even after he was getting nothing but companionship from him. Love is love, even when it is between two men of different ages.
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