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Zakhar supports vivisection

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Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/10 15:32 Records show that there were over 60 million new (HIV) infections over the past two decades.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1211-03.htm

More than 80% of people with Aids come from Africa.
The World Health Organisation says the disease is now the leading cause of death, and is the cause of a fifth of all deaths in the continent. One in four people in the country is HIV positive.

In Europe, the number of people dying from Aids has fallen by 80% since 1995 because of the introduction of drug treatments which keep the virus at bay.

From that, it's easy to see that these drugs are saving millions of lives and have the potential of saving millions more in the future. The drugs were tested on macaque monkeys. They could easily have been the rabbits you gave in your example.

Work has begun on the next phase of pre-clinical trials, again using macaque monkeys, and focussing on the doses required.

The monkeys gave the drug a green light to go onto clinical trials.

April 1999: Scientists at the Yerkes Regional Primate
Research Center in Georgia, USA, announce that a
"safe" HIV vaccine has been successfully tested on monkeys.

Let's consider your ratio, 1:1000

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000 humans, then I could accept that the rabbit should die." Zakhar 2003-02-02

Considering the unfathomable number of people who's lives can be saved, now and in hundreds of years to come, the use of those monkeys in your 1:1000 ratio is entirely feasible. In principle, you believe that vivisecting animals for our ills is right.

I shouldn't even need to give you any examples because your statement says it all. You do support vivisection, or at least the principle of it, whatever ratio you want to give it.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/10 17:07 There was no need, in THAT hypothetical discussion.

You believe what you want (I don't give a shit what you think). I do not support vivisection.

I have always been open and honest with eveyone. To be otherwise would only be fooling myself.

http://tinyurl.com/pwxc
http://tinyurl.com/pwxn

I've also noticed that you've been very selective in taking my words out of context. In the post you've been quoting you missed my statement "Research using animals should be taken with the same consideration of interests, as when we conduct human experimentation." How strange.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/10 20:46 Your error is Derek that this and most, if not all examples you will give have alternatives to animal use.

My hypothetical ratio of one rabbit for a 1000 humans only stands when there are NO alternatives.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/11 00:23 They're just examples of your earlier pretences while feigning an abhorrence to vivisection. That's all. We all know you pretend to reject it, but your stupidity let it all out in the open while trying to defend this pose.
What's the point in producing all your earlier pretences in supporting the abolition of vivisection, when your quote;

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000 humans, then I could accept that the rabbit should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

makes it perfectly clear that you do support it?
You're sunk, and you know it.

And there's another statement which you made earlier that makes your position even worse.

"The real life case of a 19 year old with vCJD being experimented on without his consent, is a form of vivisection. Most of us can accept that it was the right thing to do, in this sad case.
We can take the same decision making process, independent of species."
Zakhar 2003-09-28

From that, as well as your other example, you have unwittingly shown that you do support vivisection. You believe you can make the decision to vivisect an animal, "independent of species."



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/11 00:58 http://tinyurl.com/px1d

http://tinyurl.com/px1u

http://tinyurl.com/px2k



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/11 04:18 Do you "detest" humane mousetraps with as much passion?



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/11 09:06 Passion is what you display when you talk about "vivisection". Evasion and obfuscation is what all AR types display when the truth gets too close.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/11 16:31 Yes, and the bad sort. It's what classic philosophers and designers of political constitutions felt must be severely controlled.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/11 19:48 If you define "saving them " as the prevention of letting them die from want of these drugs, and if N fewer people are dying because of these drugs, as in the case for Europe's 80% fall since 1995,

In Europe, the number of people dying from Aids has fallen by 80% since 1995 because of the introduction of drug treatments which keep the virus at bay.

then N lives have been saved.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/12 00:09 You have no evidence, at all. You've made a big mistake, and you haven't got the bottle to admit it.

You're a shit.

Most would agree that the unconsenting use of this human in that experiment was the right thing to do. If you remove the species from the equation, then it could be right for an animal in the same circumstances.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/12 04:35 There is little to be gained and a hell of a lot to be lost from the continuation of this issue.

I detest 'vivisection' and those who support its evil abuse of animals.

I do not think, for one moment, that "Zakhar" is one of these people. I fail to see your reason in the persecution of a valuable member and keen supporter of all AR issues.

I suppose it's my turn now?



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/12 09:46 You didn't mention any alternatives during your discussion when you made that statement, so this ad hoc dodge won't help you, Liehar. Your statement says it all. It shows beyond any doubt that you support vivisection.
It took you all weekend to think of that measly ad hoc effort. You're a coward, Liehar, because the antis who do support it at least have the decency to admit it and argue their position openly.
You're hiding, and that's obvious.



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re:Zakhar supports vivisection - 2004/09/12 13:02 'Passion' is what you display when you are lifting your shirt tails ~~jonnie~~. Piss off and vote.



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