indros
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/25 00:55
'Proponents of HB 1324 claim the vast majority of the horses slaughtered are old, sick or lame. But in reality, the majority of horses sent to slaughter are young, healthy horses bought by "killer buyers" who attend horse auctions where they compete with families and other horse brokers looking for good, sound horses. A French horse meat butcher was quoted as saying
"I only buy American meat, which is red and firm. In butchering terms, we call it "well structured," the best you can get."
State Rep. Toby Goodman (R-Arlington) called for an amendment to HB 1324 that would require a horse be certified unfit by a veterinarian before it could be slaughtered. "If only old, sick or lame horses are going to slaughter, why did the bill sponsor object so strongly to this amendment?" he questioned.
Proponents of HB 1324 claim that horse slaughter provides a convenient and humane way of disposing of unwanted horses, and some have tried to equate it with euthanasia.
Christopher J. Heyde, policy analyst for the Society for Animal Protective
Legislation, said that horse slaughter is not humane, adding "to claim that slaughter and euthanasia are similar is irresponsible and false. The animals are not always stunned properly, nor do they necessarily remain unconscious until death."
"I've visited a horse slaughter facility during the slaughter process and I can assure you that the fear and anticipation experienced by these horses is unimaginable. You could smell the fear and see the panic. The slaughter process inflicts immeasurable suffering and cruelty on the horses," said
Heyde.
'Hi, a friend shared the email exchange he had with you, and I was moved by your words. I am also a horse owner, breeder and have been showing for 40 years. I am also a 20+ year
Regular Army veteran, and no "bleeding heart". Your views mirror mine from a few years ago. I also used to believe as you do, that horse slaughter was a necessary evil. But the more I have researched horse slaughter in the last 2-3 years, the more I have realized that pro-slaughter arguments are basically myths and propaganda. The majority of these horses are not old, lame, and "unwanted" horses.
America's horses are not slaughtered because they are "unwanted".
They are slaughtered because of the huge profits made by the foreign-owned companies operating illegally in Texas. The meat is shipped to developed countries like France, Belguim, Germany and
Japan, where it brings prices close to beef prices there. Yet the US does not even get tariffs on horsemeat like they do on beef. This industry is NOT providing us a service, they just like to say they are.
According to the slaughterhouse records in Texas, only 10% of the horses slaughtered there are old, lame, or otherwise "useless". They don't even bother with starved skinny horses. The other 90% are healthy normal horses that were sold at an auction, just the wrong time and the wrong place. Killer buyers also answer ads placed by people trying to find another family to love and care for their child's outgrown pet; they do not have to identify themselves as killer buyers, and many inexperienced owners have no idea who they are selling to.
Many slaughtered horses are stolen horses, and many are American mustangs that are supposed to be protected under federal law. After
California banned live horse slaughter, their horse theft rate dropped by more than 40%. Those are hardly "unwanted" horses.
..
I have purchased several draft horses that were in feedlots and killer pens at auction where the killer buyer was willing to turn a quick buck and re-sell a horse. Not one was over the age of 6 years. Not one was sick, lame, or crazy. .............'
http://www.justsaywhoa.org/opinions/hahn2.asp
huh?
Why not?
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jebaum
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/25 05:04
They serve a purpose for unwanted, aged, and unfit horses. If the Frogs want to eat horsemeat, let them.
At the present. If Labour wins the next elections, don't hold your breath.
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/25 06:54
It's neither. Most animals processed by Crown and Bel-Tex (both
Euro-owned businesses!) are unfit animals. They'd be put down anyway.
The fact that their meat is desired in Europe and Japan isn't Texas' problem. Curb demand and the supply will be Texas' problem.
Because "pearl," nitwit that she is, doesn't think very clearly. Hell, she often doesn't think *at all*. Be grateful the muddle-headed reflexologist doesn't cross-post to your group very often.
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/25 15:50
A veterinarian costs a lot of money. So does disposal. Crown and Bel-Tex pay for the horses. The difference is very significant, particularly to farmers who are barely making ends meet. As I noted back in June, Euthanizing an animal still costs money, unless it's DIY with a bullet. While shooting one's own horse is something some people can manage, many others cannot. Hiring a vet to do it will run about $250. Hiring a backhoe to bury it will run about another $100. So it's about $350 out of pocket. Selling the horse to the slaughterhouse brings in money, say $500 in the pocket. Such small sums do matter, particularly in small farming/ranching operations. If you had a bottom line to consider and a horse that was a drain on resources, which end of that $850 spread would you take?
You're emoting, and to a degree it's understandable. Many people, including me, love horses. They're remarkable animals and quite entertaining; I prefer their company to dogs. What I don't understand is why you say it's okay to kill them, but only in certain manners and without allowing them to be eaten by humans. I guess this is like your
Disney-esque opposition to deer hunting.
I noted the *real* problem last time the issue was raised. It's demand, not supply. Those two slaughterhouses fulfill two very different demands. One is a method for disposing of old, tired horses in a financially responsible manner and the other is a demand for a particular kind of meat. The former is driven by the latter: kill demand for the meat, you kill the funding for that method of disposal. As I wrote a few months ago, I hate to use the following analogy, but I think it's apropos.
The problem isn't on the supply side, but on the demand side.
Mexico and other Latin American nations make attempts to assist the US in curtailing the supply side of marijuana and other drugs. At the same time, those same nations rightfully remind the US that supply would be easier to attack were demand not so high; demand stays high, so suppliers try to meet it despite the law. The same is true with respect to all meat, including "delicacies" like horse. As long as Japanese and Europeans want horsemeat, it will be available at some price -- and that includes a much higher price, and even more chances for horsetheft and other illegal activities, should it ever resort to a blackmarket like the drug market is now.
It's hardly big business, at least by Texas standards. Last year the two facilities in Texas GROSSED $39 million. Most of that money remained in Europe where the companies operate and the meat is sold (for human consumption, of course). The two slaughterhouses employ a handful of people, and pay only about $100,000 in property taxes.
See the previous thread, which contains the various posts in which I sensitively wrote the above.
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Kittie
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/25 20:29
I thought you lot ate everything that moved.
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/25 22:38
I don't emote over things like that. I may not like it, but it's an acceptable method of disposing of ill, tired, and old horses.
This is dealing with the end of the lifespan, and doing so in a manner which is (a) legal and (b) fiscally responsible. I could also make a claim that it's ecologically responsible as well: most animals are disposed of by incineration (air pollution, water pollution) or by burial (in already overused landfills which may leach into ground water supplies).
Perhaps you can start a foundation to feed, house, and care for aged horses. Maybe you'll understand the dilemmas of an owner who has an animal which has become a burden and needs an economic incentive to do something with it: whether sell it for slaughter or pay to have it euthanized and disposed.
I have no objections to putting animals to use in life or death. Will you use a cat, dog, frog, or fetal pig to study anatomy? How is one use of a cadaver any less respectable than another?
No, but add it on top of everything else and many people are glad to actually pocket something.
By the time the decision has to be made, it's life is already at an end.
Period.
You also won't eat a squirrel (anymore). It's not about YOUR demand, it's about total demand.
Which definition? And which hunting do you not oppose? (Second question is rhetorical. My memory is fresh.)
I don't think it's wrong for hunters to have fun. I also think it's okay for slaughterhouse employees to enjoy their jobs, truckers to enjoy hauling meat, and HEB to enjoy making money off the sale of meat. You certainly enjoy it when you eat it.
Apparently. How do they know? If they care so much, and if the horses are in such great shape, buy them and set up a rescue facility. Adopt them. Apparently someone else sees those animals differently.
Hint: if your horse goes for less than 50 cents per pound at auction, someone can make money off it.
They'll find a way to operate, and the only things that will change is the market will pay horsethieves a lot more than they get now.
Read my posts from that time. Like the one that ends:
I'm not too happy about the slaughter of horses in my state; I love horses every bit as much as all you knee-jerk liberals who are up in arms about this. I have to say, though, that I'm even less pleased with the Belgian riff-raff who run the operation and the Europeans (mostly Frogs, whom I loathe anyway) and Japanese who actually eat the stuff. As I noted in my previous post, the matter of legality is currently in the courts, and our Congress is also considering legislation which would shut down the two slaughterhouses and I believe it would be signed by the president.
Whom will you attack next for slaughterhouses after ours are closed and while the Frogs and Beligian and Japanese are *still* eating horsemeat? Mexico? Canada? Argentina? Australia? The blackmarket?
Attack demand and supply will quickly correct itself. Attack supply and you'll quickly create blackmarkets.
I also said at that time, "It's *no* different than any other animal aside from the fact that society seems to place a higher value on horses than cattle, poultry, lamb, venison, fish, seafood, or pork."
That's OUR society, not all others. You're probably also not too happy with those who eat dog and cat meat, either. Other cultures would be just as appalled by *your* consumption of meat regardless of its source.
Are they completely right and you completely wrong? Or is the world big enough for all of us with all of our peculiar tastes?
One thing is sure. Outlawing the slaughter of horses will create a blackmarket, and its effects will probably break your heart much more than the legal slaughter. Eliminate the demand and the supply will become a different problem (landfill or incineration).
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indros
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/26 00:48
Terror and agony.
There is no moral justification for our cruel treatment of animals. We do not require meat to be healthy, in fact the opposite is true.
As for tradition and cultural practices, actions involving cruelty cannot be considered something to be proud of.
Note; The accepted definitions for 'humanity' are;
humanity n 1: the quality or state of being humane
2a: the quality or state of being human pl
2b: human attributes or qualities pl
3: the branches of learning having primarily a cultural character
4: MANKIND
http://www.math.chalmers.se/~hallgren/wget.cgi?humanity
n 1: the quality or state of being humane
humane hu.mane hyu:-'ma-n, yu:- -'ma-n-n*s aj [ME humain] 1: marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for other human beings or animals
http://www.math.chalmers.se/~hallgren/wget.cgi?humane
Definition: [n] the quality of compassion or consideration for others (people or animals)
See Also: humanity, mercifulness, mercy, quality
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/humaneness
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indros
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/26 05:30
Don't mention it, Rubystars. Justice will prevail.
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/26 10:16
Aren't the people of Belgium unaware of the risks associated with eating meat? Or don't they even care about themselves?
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SpudBundy
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/26 13:59
You are a troll and a timewaster.
You hate animals and constantly waste the time of people who do not share your distorted views.
Stop telling us that you work 80hrs a week and get a life and a job.
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Hey Nash
Foxhunting.
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indros
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/26 20:14
Manitoba Livestock Industry Profiles 2001
HORSE SECTOR
Most of the horsemeat is produced in Alberta for export to the EU, Japan, Mexico and the United States.
http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/statistics/aac02s05.html
'Chris Heyde of the Society for Animal Protective Legislation said demand for horse meat increased in Europe and Japan when meat consumers there became concerned about Bovine Spongiform
Encephalopathy (BSE, or mad cow's disease).'
http://131.104.232.9/animalnet/2002/2-2002/animalnet_february_19-2.htm
Interestingly, in the search I just did, I came across this, from Japan Forum;
Posted by Maciamo on 13-09-02 15:46:
Japanese food quizz !
We haven't talked much about food on the forum yet. It's time for me to ask you a few questions about the origin of Japanese food. As you probably know, Japanese take eating seriously and French, Italian and
Chinese food especially have a big part in everyday life in Japan. What you might not know is that Japanese used to be vegetarians before the
Meiji westernisation. Buddhists didn't eat four-legged animals, though fish and seefood were allowed. Nowadays it's a bit tricky for the tourist to distinguish what is traditionally Japanese, what is foreign and what is hybrid (foreign-inspired Japanese food). ..
Posted by miyuki on 16-09-02 13:33:
Some people ate meat even in Edo period.
In Nara period,Tenmu tenno prohibited to eat cattle,horses, dogs, monkeys and birds. But people allowed to eat deer or wild bore.
Edo period, they prohibited to eat amimals officially.
On the other hand, they made some crafts or drums from cowskins in each han.
Hikone han allowed to kill cattle officially to make drums for Edo bakufu.
They offered miso taste beef every year to Syogun or Tokugawa families.
In Satsuma han,a doctor wrote in his diary that people here caught more birds or animals than people did in other han.
Deer meat was called 'momiji,' and wild bore's meat was called 'Yama kujira(whale of mountain).'
Now we count rabbits 1wa, 2wa...like birds.
It is said because people tried to hold back their meat eating.
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/27 07:36
Aren't the people of Belgium aware of the risks associated with eating meat? Or don't they even care about themselves?
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/27 09:28
Crown and Bel Tex are in your backyard, Go see them.
Do not confuse Europe with GB. There is more than the North Sea between us.
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jebaum
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/27 11:15
<snip bullshit>
For those of you not used to receiving "pearl's" cross-posts, here's a little background:
To save a bit of time, I'm taking the posts in the other thread which outline "pearl's" kooky beliefs. I'm using Kevin's response to Bob as the main outline.
Thanks to Kevin (remarks prefaced with KDB below) and Jon (whose engagements in "debate" with her are signified by JB*) for addressing certain issues (my own comments and notes are marked with US). Should anyone need any further clarification or proof, simply ask or do your own search of Google's archives under the word and any of her pseudonyms (lilweed, Lotus, and pearl). Kevin and Jon are free to revise or extend any remarks.
NOTE TO BOB BLACK: How do you like your crow?
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re:Blood Country - Texas shame - 2005/03/27 13:01
Talk about prejudice. Most of the horsemeat exported from Texas goes to
Europe -- your backyard. Crown and Bel-Tex are Euro-owned. Go figure.
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