JDH
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Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/11 17:20
<snip>
It is important to note that, while various Christian group have different interpretations, there are also many people who accept that the Bible supports vegetarianism as the most Christian of diets, and that Christianity supports animal rights, as it does human rights.
People can bandy proof-texts back and forth on any subject, and various Biblical texts have been used to support everything from slavery, and oppression of women and gays, to the Holocaust. But there is also a long tradition in the church of saints who expressed concern for animals, and a growing number of modern theologians are expressing support for animal rights.
I'm currently reading a newer book by one of the best-known pro-AR theologians, Andrew Linzey, called _Animal Rites_, which is a group of liturgies for animals, such as an animal burial,healing,a vigil for suffering animal, and eucharistic prayers for all creatures.
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/11 18:10
<snip>
Legalism is always an issue, on various topics, and I think Biblical literalism is very similar to the Pharisees' idolatry of the Law -- a concept which was condemned by both Christ and Paul. The important thing is to open ourselves to God's presence and respond to it. I think a compassion toward God's creation and our fellow beings is central to that.
I've been attending the Confirmation class in my parish -- I go to the
Confirmation class in every parish I attend, because it is a wonderful way to learn how different priests approach the identity of the Church, and their individual emphases. This priest was stressing that we look into each others' faces and see Christ there. There was another gay (male) couple in the class -- together for 24 years -- and it was wonderful to see in them a reflection of our own growth in the church and our own search, and then to look around the circle and see Christ also in the faces of the little 12-year-old Oriental girl, the other young people, the middle-aged ex-Presbyterian, and the middle-aged
Irish ex-Roman priest. I offered the closing prayer, which I feel is the central commission Christ gives us: "Oh Lord, help us to see that we are all one in Thee, and give us the grace to serve Thee in each other."
Would you suggest that ethics and morality have nothing to do with lifestyle? That certainly has no basis in Scripture or the Church's teaching. You've been beating me on the head with complaints about the supposed evils of my "lifestyle" for some time here. Have you changed your opinion on that?
Not as we understand it today, as an orientation.
<snip>
If you and the other right-wing fundies would really understand that, perhaps we could have a real, honest dialog. Our priest has spent his life (and earned his Doctorate ) in the theory and practice of
Reconciliation, working in Ireland, the Balkans, and recently dialoging with Moslems from Afghanistan. (I find it interesting that so many priests in the Episcopal church have doctorates -- we have a very educated clergy.) I wish you could meet him and talk with him.
<snip>
Surely the fact that we are fallen should not justify sinful behavior.
Our unfallen state -- whether as myth or reality -- presents an image of what we should be.
<snip>
Science, I think, is. It is not completely genetic, of course, but there certainly seems to be a genetic component.
No, not at all. The dominion (stewardship ) we are given is what compels us to recognize our obligations toward the creatures God gives into our care and concern,
That is not true. The roots of animal and human rights are to be found in the Bible and our Christian heritage.
As I said, a different culture. We advance, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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Syntaxis
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/11 18:36
You should address all the salient points I raise rather than a selective few.
Compare the accounts of slavery to the ones of vegetarians, nitwit. Show me vegans outside the Garden of Eden. Even John the Baptist ate locusts.
In some ways, not in all. For instance, people still "did what was right in their own eyes" just like you're doing now with respect to AR and homosexuality.
No, it's true. Read the account of Jesus' fishing trips with the disciples and how much fish they caught. Jesus helped his disciples find so much fish that the nets almost burst and the boats started to sink.
Compare that to modern fishing practices -- which, incidentally, are often called "factory fishing" by your fellow travelers.
Here, I'll help you with the Bible passages:
When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, "Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch."
Simon answered, "Master, we've worked hard all night and haven't caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets."
When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break. So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.
When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus' knees and said, "Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!" For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken...
Luke 5:4-9 (cp. John 21 for similar post-resurrection account)
Who said there were? Maybe you need to read your agitprop from
Greenpeace and PETA.
Maybe you'll feel differently after you immerse yourself in leftist propaganda on the subject.
No, he did.
On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"
So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, "Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him. Say to the owner of the house he enters, 'The Teacher asks:
Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' He will show you a large upper room, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there."
The disciples left, went into the city and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/11 22:04
Ipse dixit. A careful analysis of the Bible shows people eating meat thruoghout the Old and New Testaments. Furthermore, Christ and his disciples were much more than individual anglers; they were, rather, the factory fishermen of the day. Christ himself ate meat at the Passover.
He ate meat after the resurrection. He taught that it's not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of a man's mouth. The apostle Paul similarly urged believers not to judge one another by diet or drink.
In every single instance of the above, you and your fellow travelers reject the words and actions of our Lord.
The New Testament says a lot more about homosexuality (and all in opposition to it!) than it says about the treatment of animals. Indeed, with the exception of a couple parables, Christ was silent on the AR issue. Why do you suggest his silence on homosexuality is some form of approval for it but treat his silence on AR differently?
No, the ones who have the texts can cite them. You cannot. I have shown you this already at AAEV and TPA. Care to discuss it in all these groups, too? I'm more than ready to do so. 
Oppression of any of those? NO. You clearly don't know the Bible. You claim it supports homosexuality, homosexual marriage, and animal rights.
It doesn't. Like those who make wild claims or distort texts to promote
"oppression," you are wrong.
Because they, like you, have rejected the Bible for "doing what is right in their own eyes."
You and your evil lesbian partner hate children despite Christ's admonition against hating others or despising children. It's yet another instance in which you follow your own dark heart over the clear teachings of Scripture.
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/11 22:59
<snip>
Absolutely false. There were no "factory" fisheries in Biblical times, and even today, there really aren't many, except for a few hatcheries. This is absurd.
Both of which refer to controversies OF THE TIME about Jewish ritual practices ( like the issue of circumcision ) and whether they were required for non-Jewish converts. There is no relevance to animal rights at all.
<snip>
It says nothing about homosexuality as an orientation. The concept didn't even exist then.
He was silent on issues of slavery, racial relations between blacks and white, equality of women in politics, ecological responsibility, voting rights for minorities, and a wide variety of modern issues.
It was a different culture. Yet there is much in the Bible which creates resonances which are reflected in animal rights thought, as in issues of racial justice and feminism.
People here have noted several texts which match yours, especially the passage from Genesis supporting vegetarianism as the diet of pre-fallen humanity.
Oh, yes...definitely. The distant ancestor of the Holocaust was the claim of Christians that Jews were "Christ killers," anti-Abolitionists claimed blacks were the "sons of Ham," and
St. Paul was often cited as supporting oppression of women in several areas.
No, I say it says nothing about homosexuality as it is understood today, as a genetically-disposed orientation.
Again, animal rights as it is understood today is a post-70's movement, but the roots of a theology supporting animal rights does exist in the Bible.
<snip>
It doesn't say HUMANS have rights either. None of His creatures have rights against their Creator. But justice is a great issue, and human and animal rights grow out of that Biblical concern.
<snip>
I don't hate children at all.
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/12 04:42
1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
Genesis 4
3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD.
4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,
5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
Genesis 9
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.
2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Exodus 12
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt,
2 "This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year.
3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household. [...]
6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight.
7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs.
8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
9 Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire-head, legs and inner parts. [...]
14 "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD -a lasting ordinance.
Leviticus 1
1 The LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting. He said,
2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `When any of you brings an offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.
3 "`If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer a male without defect. He must present it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting so that it[1] will be acceptable to the LORD.
4 He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him.
5 He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting.
6 He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces.
7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire.
8 Then Aaron's sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar.
9 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
Leviticus 12
6 " 'When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering.
7 He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood. " 'These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl.
8 If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.' "
Deuteronomy 12
15 Nevertheless, you may slaughter your animals in any of your towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the LORD your God gives you. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat it.
Deuteronomy 14
4 These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat,
5 the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep.
6 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud.
7 However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you.
8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
9 Of all the creatures living in the water, you may eat any that has fins and scales.
10 But anything that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean.
11 You may eat any clean bird.
12 But these you may not eat: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture,
13 the red kite, the black kite, any kind of falcon,
14 any kind of raven,
15 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk,
16 the little owl, the great owl, the white owl,
17 the desert owl, the osprey, the cormorant,
18 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.
19 All flying insects that swarm are unclean to you; do not eat them.
20 But any winged creature that is clean you may eat.
21 Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. But you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk.
1 Kings 8
5 and King Solomon and the entire assembly of Israel that had gathered about him were before the ark, sacrificing so many sheep and cattle that they could not be recorded or counted.
[...]
63 Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the LORD: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the Israelites dedicated the temple of the LORD.
Mark 7
18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him `unclean'?
19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
Mark 14
12 On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"
13 So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, "Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him.
14 Say to the owner of the house he enters, 'The Teacher asks:
Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?'
(refer to Exodus 12 for details about the Passover food)
Luke 2
22 When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord" ),
24 and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: "a pair of doves or two young pigeons."
Luke 24
39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see;
a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?"
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.
John 21
4 Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5 He called out to them, "Friends, haven't you any fish?" "No," they answered.
6 He said, "Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some." When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish. [...]
9 When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.
10 Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you have just caught."
11 Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.
12 Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast."
Acts 10
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.
10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.
12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.
13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
Romans 14
3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.
4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/12 06:10
1 The LORD said to Moses,
2 "Say to the Israelites: `Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives[1] any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him.
[...]
9 "`If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.
10 "`If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
11 "`If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
12 "`If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
13 "`If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
14 "`If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
15 "`If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
16 "`If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Numbers 15
32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day.
33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly,
34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him.
35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp."
36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.
[...]
We are all born to die. Every one of us. Don't you think that
Christ's example has something to do with that fact?
· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat. That would be 750 meals if each included 3/4 pound of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised cattle products contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and better lives for cattle than soy or rice products. ·
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/12 12:41
No, Usual -- I said, correctly, that both addressed Jewish ritual practices (see below). The issue of the significance of the Law (addressed by Christ) became an issue in the early church when applied to converts.
As I was; I am correct. The issue is not Law, but the spirit -- and the Christian spirit, the mind of Christ, deals with compassion, non-violence, and service and sacrifice by the higher for the lower.
Christian AR is based in this spirit.
I'll read it later. I don't necessarily accept the teachings of
Protestants.
Our tradition is Catholic, Anglo-Catholic. We broke away on an issue of Church government, not Catholic doctrine, like the
Protestant sects.
<snip>
The Law has a function much like the 39 Articles. It is a historical document from a different culture and a different time, and it is valuable as an insight into the origins of our own beliefs, but it is no longer binding as written then.
<snip>
But AR is not about "certain food and drink." It is about our attitude toward and treatment of God's creatures, given into our care. Vegetarianism is just one small aspect of AR thought.
There are historical parallels and prototypes for AR thought among saints and teachers in the Church.
No, that's part of the problem. Our priest was asking last week who we thought Jesus was. Everyone gave descriptions in the past tense. Our priest stressed that Jesus is not a dead historical figure; He is a living presence in the present, most visible in our actions toward our fellow creatures, human and non-human.
Nor do I. It's sad when rigid legalism and lack of charity split the church. As I said, it's not the liberals who are splitting the church and threatening schism; it's the conservatives who are leaving and setting up their own new denomination.
Yes, with people who show they are willing to have one and treat other
Christians with charity and respect. That lets you out.
You think you know more about me than my priest -- or understand better what being a Christian means? Fine -- do what you want, believe what you want, I have no quarrel with that. But my priest is my priest, and if I want spiritual direction, I'll go to him, not you.
Jon Ball, Mercer, and you other Antis taught me one very good lesson -- that none of us can become perfect through our own efforts. We do what we can, accept it will never be enough, and put the rest in God's hands. It was a hard lesson, but a valuable one. They also taught me one other good lesson -- NEVER show weakness. I opened my heart
and jonnie still brings it up as a triumph of the Antis and my "nervous breakdown." If I ever DID change my mind on anything, or have any doubts about my actions, you can be
DAMN sure I'd never admit it again here. You are not honest searchers after truth and fellow Christians with concern for animals and our ethical obligations toward them. You are a bunch of vicious hyenas waiting to leap on any sign of weakness. I know you now, and I will never trust any of you in discussing serious issues ever again.
<snip>
How so?
<snip>
No, no more than the Kingship of God indicates earthly kings should be tyrants.
Ipse dixit.
<snip>
Ipse dixit.
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re:Christian vegetarianism - 2006/10/12 15:00
degeneRat replied to the following 1% of my post which she did not snip:
NO. Admit your error. You claimed both addressed a circumsion heresy.
You were wrong.
We're not discussing various topics. We're discussing a narrow issue witin a Biblical context.
You can "think" whatever you want, but you need to deal with two aspects of Scripture, the Law and the Gospel, to understand. Consider the following article written by Michael Horton, a Reformed scholar, for a quick synopsis of the issue. And since you're so caught up on academic credentials, he has a doctorate from Oxford and he's a professor at
Westminster Theological Seminary.
http://snipurl.com/4er3
Your church, like others from the Reformed tradition, used to make
Law-Gospel distinctions. You are now so opposed to the law that you seek to explain it away through different contexts, even going so far as to suggest the Holy Spirit is leading this diametric move against
Scripture. This type of behavior is no different from when a charismaniac tells you the Lord is speaking to him. And with all due respect, Pat Robertson is hearing stuff more in line with God's word than what you seem to be hearing. I don't trust *either* of you.
What you are failing to note is that Christ and Paul taught that the Law serves a purpose even for believers. The Pharisees taught that the Law made people holy (i.e., "what goes into a man's mouth"). That is also the part addressed by Paul. He even asks himself in one of the epistles if the law is meaningless, which is a point you seem to be trying to make. His answer was NO. Yours seems to be yes.
We both have room to complain about misuse of the Law by modern
Pharisees, but you should look in the mirror and look at your own attempts of Pharisaism: AR and veganism. You are just like those you abhor on the right when they try to use the Bible to enforce behaviors in the rest of society (i.e., "blue" laws, forbidding sale of alcoholic beverages, etc.). You do that when you proselytize others with your pro-AR and pro-vegan propaganda and represent those as "ethical" choices when the choice is ethically neutral. Certain food and drink cannot make us any more ethical than not buying certain things on Sunday or having a beer: it's all BS whether right or left.
You have a very different view of "compassion" than most people, even among Christians. Your AR paradigms contradict the teachings of
Scripture and history and isn't a question of slavery or gang rape or any of your other diversions.
I would endorse this, too, of attending such courses in other congregations which have a more traditional view.
The good priests will tell you to look in the Bible to find the real
Christ. The touchy-feely ones seem to prefer the Christ-in-your-face to the real one anyway.
Yes, the "growth" that has torn apart the American church, ripped the fellowship between the American church and all the other Anglican bodies, and halted dialogue with other denominations. I don't exactly see any of that as positive development.
*Asian* girl. "Oriental" is perjorative unless you're speaking of objects like antiques.
Lifestyle meaning "vegan", AR, and homosexual, or even considering each individually. One is not unclean or defiled by what he eats.
You raise your red herring yet again. Those passages address people who were oriented toward homosexuality back then, and they still address them today. The only thing that has changed is the politics of it and the condoning of it in some quarters.
I can only speak and act for myself. I do not have any control over anybody else. That includes a whole list of people whose words I dislike as much as you do, but you've yet to cease the comparisons or falsely aligning me with them.
I've tried with you and all you do is snip and accuse me of being Fred
Phelps. Are you capable of honest dialogue?
So? Get him in here. Maybe he can shut your trap long enough that you'll actually read what I write rather than lash out at me and call me a
"fundie."
Funny, the same is true within my denomination. Who'd ever think it?
Even the Catholics try to educate their priests. I've even seen BAPTISTS with DMins and PhDs. Go figure.
BTW, have you ever seen the British comedy "Keeping Up Appearances"? You sure do remind me of Hyacinth.
Eating meat is not sinful. If it is, we're still without a savior because Christ sure did eat some.
Of course it isn't. If it WERE genetic, it would find itself breeded out of existence.
According to whom? Media types who either accept junk science or over-hype studies?
http://www.narth.com/docs/dejavu.html
etc.
And which in NO way prevents us from eating them or using them for our welfare.
Not that different. They got hungry, they ate meat. They needed something done, they used animals. Sounds pretty familiar to me whether we're talking food, plowing, or research.
Shirking your responsibility by thinking different rules apply to you.
Will there be any sins left when our entire culture is "oriented" or otherwise clinically-defined?
Tearing your church and its fellowship with other denominations apart isn't advance, it's regression. A very tragic step back.
The spirit guiding you and your church isn't God. It's your own belly.
You snipped the proof of that again rather than deal with it.
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